Curse

ensoriki · Feb 03, 2011, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Forget this crap, Team Arena's died, hero battles died.
Let HA's ass die.
The factions pvp is the successful shit.
Unless they're going to make Heros Ascent an acessible pick up and play format, forget about it. Legit.

Missing HB · Feb 04, 2011, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Don't play. Experienced players voted with their feet. As others have pointed out, the players that would respond would largely tend to have poor attitudes and not be worth the time investment.

I do have a real solution, though. What is needed is some sort of less prestigious PvP system that produces published individual rankings. That way, players could work on developing individual skill in that format and separate themselves from the generally lousy pool of candidates you'd get if you openly recruited to train for GvG or HA without restriction.

Suppose a Random Arenas format existed where the teams were scrambled every match and you couldn't leave after winning in order to attempt a resync without getting dishonor. Now also suppose that it kept track of your results by character class, so that the entire top 100 was not full of Monks. Now suppose that it reset every month in order to avoid punishing you for being bad in the past. Finally, suppose that it didn't give out any rewards other than ratings increases and decreases, and calculated that on the basis of the strength of your team and your opponents.

That system would let good teams in need of players easily identify those players that are serious about getting better at PvP and are worth investing time in...assuming you could keep it sufficiently populated with players.

That was called hero battles. It would be much easier to introduce it again than applying it on RA. A ladder system on such a random format wouldn't work at all . It does work in games such as CS , SC or W3 because you can make your team win alone. But here , it would rely completly on luck ( even someone very good could be on bottom by never getting any healer , getting crap mates, etc...)

Martin Alvito · Feb 04, 2011, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That was called hero battles. It would be much easier to introduce it again than applying it on RA. A ladder system on such a random format wouldn't work at all . It does work in games such as CS , SC or W3 because you can make your team win alone. But here , it would rely completly on luck ( even someone very good could be on bottom by never getting any healer , getting crap mates, etc...)

I agree that straight ELO isn't going to get it done, but you could devise a stat along the lines of baseball's wins above replacement stat to solve that problem. You'd use the ratings of teammates and the opponents and correct for the presence/absence of dedicated heals. Long story short, if you have enough competitive data you can devise an algorithm that will get a computer to tell you who is good and who isn't.

Bringing back HB for this purpose has two problems. The skills developed don't really translate to other formats all that well, and you want your developmental players off in their own little world. Asking players to fight their way through to the top of a format full of seasoned players in order to signal competence is probably a little too much to ask.

Missing HB · Feb 04, 2011, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The skills developed don't really translate to other formats all that well

I don't think so. Players there learn how to timekill , how to manage a team ( that works the same in cap pts map in HA ), how to watch map , etc.... Why do you think many top Hb'ers converted themselves to GvG...
Maybe not everyone will learn this , but i'm pretty sure you learn more there than in any form of RA , where luck and buttonmashing without thinking matters.

Swingline · Feb 04, 2011, 09:54 AM // 09:54

A lot of the key problems have been hit on the head so I'm just going to share some ideas that I've had that could have made HA and overall pvp better. The rewards from pvp should only have been associated with pvp. Dedicated pvpers farm HA get quite a lot of money for pve and therefore have little incentive to pve. New players have no incentive to pvp because all the strongest teams farm HA constantly because why bother pve when you can make money from pvp. Instead they should get something like special weapons/armor tokens(that you cant sell) to unlock high end skins from pvp that they can create on pvp characters and maybe some skins that you cant acquire in pve. A good example of this idea would be the end chest in HA dropping a crystalline sword token or an Obsidian armor token that you can trade into a npc that unlocks the skin for pvp characters. I know you can do this with zaishen coins but would be cool to get something for pvp that's just as rare in pve. You also should only get these tokens by doing pvp.

Now about the discrimination and shunning of new players. IMHO there should have never been a title for HA. To increase the incentive to do HA because of the lack of a title there should be special achievements a player can acquire by doing something unique that everyone sees at the moment upon getting it but cannot be displayed except to that players account under the hero panel.

This is just an idea but it would have been cool if every form of pvp below GvG was like random arenas except AB since you already have 3 random teams of 4. The only downside I can see is people syncing HA but if HA became very active with new blood it would be incredibly hard to do.

I know its far to late to implement some of these ideas even if anet considered doing something along these lines but again they are just ideas of a way to make something I use to love much better than what it currently is. If you don't like any of them I can understand why but the only idea I feel strongly about is changing the reward system and doing so would liven HA up quite a bit.

Il Living Il · Feb 05, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

. Instead they should get something like special weapons/armor tokens(that you cant sell) to unlock high end skins from pvp that they can create on pvp characters and maybe some skins that you cant acquire in pve.You also should only get these tokens by doing pvp.

Now about the discrimination and shunning of new players. IMHO there should have never been a title for HA. To increase the incentive to do HA because of the lack of a title there should be special achievements a player can acquire by doing something unique that everyone sees at the moment upon getting it but cannot be displayed except to that players account under the hero panel.

to your first point there called RPs u get them from aTing, and your second point is ridiculous, the only reason people HA is for the titles and emotes.

Morphy · Feb 05, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Living Il

to your first point there called RPs u get them from aTing

You can also buy those with Zcoins, though :/.

Gabs88 · Feb 05, 2011, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Well deserved IMO, the way newbies for years and years have been kept out of HA should have consequences.

Nalia · Feb 08, 2011, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

...- Revert Back to 6v6 , or allow more henchs in party :...

...- Making HA/GvG quest more regularly : it was suggested it wasn't really good idea , but it seems that a lot more people play those arenas when it's quest day...

6v6? do you recall what it did last time they implemented it? exploiters flooded the area and legitimate players quit, 6v6 combined with double fame weekends had a serious detriment in long term to halls that we still are recovering from... prime example, r9 players on warriors that dont know ANY of the common builds for halls

that being said, allowing the addition of more than 2 hench to party would help to fix the problem and since the hench are in most cases worse than a real player it would not allow any serious advantage such as adding heroes would do. it would not be too much of a change to allow the adding of say 4 hench to the party

the halls zquests have a tendancy to flood the area with people that know little to nothing of pvp, this creates a problem for players that dont have regular teams they run with as they cant find a decent team to get past uw since they are trying to carry 7 other people

flooding halls with noobs will only frustrate at least half of the more regular halls players. the players that have regular teams are already winning matches so they do not suffer. the problem being, not everyone that plays halls has regular teams they run with yet they still play during times other than zquest/fame weekends. are you proposing you would like to see halls turn into RA in concern to player ability? imho thats counterproductive to the spirit of halls being top end pvp

in summary, by having 8v8 it allows for more diversity and flexibility in the team composition, but i do have to agree that the state of halls is degrading and the inclusion of more hench would be nice.

Swingline · Feb 14, 2011, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Living Il

to your first point there called RPs u get them from aTing, and your second point is ridiculous, the only reason people HA is for the titles and emotes.

Its far from ridiculous. HA is in the state it's in now because of titles and emotes. New players are being kept out because people want to get their next emote as fast as possible but then again who can blame them with R15 taking three years.

cantalus · Feb 14, 2011, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Its far from ridiculous. HA is in the state it's in now because of titles and emotes. New players are being kept out because people want to get their next emote as fast as possible but then again who can blame them with R15 taking three years.

this 'reason' is so old, there are always new players coming in, and everyone was r0 once, HA is dead cause it's a microcosim of the game, less people play day on day, and also because it's hard to get rank, unlike most titles in pve

stop thinking people deserve to HA, they don't, they earn it by less complaining and more doing it. develop a thick skin, and accept that up to a certain point, pvp is mostly about getting used to failing hard